6l80 vs 10l80 transmission

The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives. Sometimes, finding the cause of a complaint isnt as straightforward as one would expect; sometimes, these causes can be very elusive. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. ASK FOR CHAD - Freight Shipping - 90 Day Warranty. Starting in 1996, many 4L60E transmissions employed a bolt-on bellhousing. : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain Thats a great question. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. Transmission Report: 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild. Larry Callahan Founder/Administrator of Pro-Touring.com, G-Machines.com and HostMyJunk.com To advertise on Pro-Touring.com click here I have a 2wd 2000 regular cab stepside bed Silverado that used to make closer to 600-650 wheel horsepower with the D1-SC Procharger and 4L80E. Team ATF builder Super Dave doing his magic on assembling the First 10L80 transmission ATFSpeed has had come thru the shop. We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. See the pictures below to help you tell if you have the right transmission. First, check for updated programming for the TCM strategy. But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. It has factory size tires 275/55/20. This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. Case 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing to 885 ft. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. Exceptional torque rating. Spin losses (i.e. A rebuilt 10L80 will only have a certain number of components that get replaced. What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. Second 2.99 As we have all learned with other units, very often the root cause of a converter clutch failure stems from a failure within the electro/hydraulic controls from the transmission. All Rights Reserved. To give you a sense of scope, for every single forged replacement cover that Sonnax sells for the 4L60-E TMBX, we sell many, many more for the 6L80/90 JMBX. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. Newer to the transmission world is its use of direct clutch-to-clutch shifting and the total lack of bands. Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. 700R4 / 4L60E with PATC close ratio gear set. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . vehicle weights. Drivability concerns are confirmed, and the pan is chock full of debris. The drive gear and idler gear with the bearing are not sold separately. Before answering that question, its worth noting the role that Sonnax plays in the converter rebuilding business. The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. Thank you. It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. You can scribe numbers on them from 1-6 if you choose for a quick reminder of their location. What came first: the chicken or the egg? This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. The thicker JMBX piston cant conform to the cover (like it can in the 4L60-E TMBX), and at a commanded slip rate of approximately 50 RPMs in lockup, there is ultimately metal-to-metal contact that occurs between the front cover and the piston. The 6L80 was, from the ground up, developed as an electric over hydraulic transmission with microprocessor control. So, what's the unique problem with the 6L80, 6L90 converter found in full-size vehicles? I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. I & II Wait 2 seconds. It is a dog in the summer time. But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. $499.00. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. General 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. August 8, 2022. Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. Beyond that, its probably not a good idea even if it will allow lockup because that clutch surface area is limited. Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. Made of billet aluminum with included swivel -6 AN fittings with 3/8" barbs. $ 439.00 Select options. Its valuable to know that the debris you are seeing in the pans of all of those 6L80 and 6L90 units is very often from converter failure. 10R80 transmission swap? The TCM is actually even programmed to adjust its operation for transmission clutch wear. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! You are browsing camaro6. This is an immediate DTC that effects emissions. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. It can also be controlled under DSC, or Driver Shift Control, e.g., "tap shifting". Im with you on AFM is crap. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. should check for clearance. So the service life is limited, and the warranty will only last 1-2 years. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. The factory clutch apply piston has a sharp, square edge that does not completely apply force across the entire clutch piston. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . Concerns can range from any of the following: These drivability concerns can be mistaken for transmission malfunctions. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. Is the out put shaft and splines on a 4L80E the same as a turbo 400? The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. Now it has RPM Level 6 but if a 6L80E or 6L90E swap was introduced or even the 8 and 10 transmissions it would be a game changer. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. The torque converter is a fluid turbine drive and - like those on its predecessor transmissions, the TH350C, 700R4, 4L60, and 4L80E - features a lock-up pressure plate for direct mechanically coupled driving from the engine crank. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. Your email address will not be published. If thats the case, the valve body will have to be replaced to correct these concerns. Can I assume my car has the General Motors GL80 with the 4.02 first gear? Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. 6L80/6L90/8L90/10L90 AN Transmission Cooler Manifold Our Price: $150.00 Out of stock We now offer a convenient AN trans cooler manifold solution for the 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, and 10L90 transmission. Powertrain Expo Why the Sonnax forged covers and pistons solve the problem. Indirectly affects TCC control and shift control. The complaint A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A Apply Time Out Of Range code. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. Seventh 1.00 Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. JT. There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. The 10L80 was a joint engineering effort between GM and Ford. The idea behind this conversion offers multiple overlapping advantages. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Grade braking and clutch line pressure (for greater holding power) are additionally great features that are activated by Tow / Haul mode on the truck platforms. The location of the warmer and the routing of the hoses can vary widely. Nov 26 . Over time, technicians start to see the same patterns of failures in different families of units. The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. This is the abridged version of my problem. To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. Ninth 0.69 With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. The 6L80 would have big shoes to fill, with legendary predecessors like the TH400, 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions. As you build the best transmission that you can for your customer, you should consider including an updated torque converter in the repair estimate. Hi Jeff, It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. LT). And Sonnax doesnt even offer a forged clutch piston for the TMBX there just isnt any demand for one. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. Essentially what TCI did was to engage the overdrive at the back of the trans to split the gear spread between the original First and Second gear ratios and again between Second and Third. One needs to realize that the stamped covers are not all that flat to begin with. While not new to the 6L80, it uses an Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and Output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. With 10 forward gears to choose from, the 10L80 transmission is able to reduce the fuel consumption of a high horsepower engine. The TCM-2600/2650 is used to enable the use of the GM 6l50e, 6L80E, 6l90E, 6T70E and 6T75 E transmissions behind practically any engine. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. The transmission is automatically shifted featuring performance algorithms to minimize upshifts during closed throttle driving to prevent unnecessary shifting. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long. Joined Feb 11, 2007 Messages 11 Location . Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? The replacement solenoid band number must match the band number of the solenoid being replaced. If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). None of the clutch packs can engage, and there is no fail-safe operation. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. The 6L50, 6L80, 6L90, 8L45, 8L90, 10L60, 10L80, & 10L90 transmissions from MY2015 to current are filled through a port in the bottom of the oil pan. Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. 8 Options if Your Transmission Has Failed, Transmission Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC), Best Remanufactured Transmission Companies, Hybrid Battery Replacement Cost and Prices, 10 Most Common Transmission Problems & How to Fix Them, How to Change Transmission Fluid Step by Step, What is a Transmission Flush? Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. The complaint A Ford vehicle equipped with the FNR5 transmission has a complaint of a severe slipping condition in reverse. GM states, ". The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. Required fields are marked *. All previous GM automatic transmissions were virtually all based on hydraulic controls, and received increasing electrical elements as they modernized. What is your recomendation for towing? The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. Shift the transmission to Neutral. I also have a 2wd 2006 Trailblazer SS with a forged 416ci stroked LS3 which makes around 600 hp or so with a Yank SS3600 stall converter. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! The band number is printed on the solenoids in the location shown and will be a 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 (Figure 3). This transmission is out of a Tur. If the warmer is not mounted to the transmission, refer to factory information to locate it. 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. The button for Tap control is on the top of the shifter, making it easy to use in both left and right hand drive vehicles. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E 6L80E Specs The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. So whats the most common failure thats seen time and again with these? By Wayne Colonna. All of the 1998-up cases used behind the LS family of engines used the separate bellhousing style of case.

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